The Justice Department should not avoid prosecuting Donald Trump in connection with the Jan. 6 Capitol attack if prosecution is warranted, MP Liz Cheney said in an interview with ABC News co-host “This Week.” Jonathan Karl.
While filing charges against the former president, which could challenge President Joe Biden in 2024, would be unprecedented and “difficult” for the country, not doing so would support a “much more serious constitutional threat,” Cheney said. Wednesday in an interview at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library that aired Sunday on “This Week.”
“Are you worried about what this means for the country? [see] a prosecuted ex-president? A former president who was a likely candidate; Who can run for president against Biden? ”Karl asked Cheney.
“I think it’s a much more serious constitutional threat if a president can take part in such activities, and most of the president’s party is looking the other way; or we, as a country, decide we don’t really take it. seriously our constitutional obligations. ” said Cheney. “I think it’s a much, much more serious threat.”
“I really think we have to make those decisions, no matter how difficult, apart from politics. We really have to think about them from the perspective of: what does it mean for the country?” she said.
“Absolutely confident” in Hutchinson’s testimony
The Wyoming Republican told Karl she was “absolutely confident” in Cassidy Hutchinson’s startling testimony last week during a surprise hearing of the Jan. 6 House committee, which Cheney chairs.
“She’s an incredibly brave young woman,” Cheney said of Hutchinson.
On Tuesday, former aide to Trump’s White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, testified that he was told Trump was verbally aggressive with Secret Service agents and threw himself behind the wheel of his vehicle after learning who did not go to the Capitol after its demonstration. January 6, 2021.
Hutchinson said Tony Ornato, a Secret Service agent and Trump’s deputy chief of staff, told him this not long after the incident that same day. Hutchinson’s story has drawn significant attention and Trump’s push.
“What Mrs. Hutchinson testified was a conversation of which she was a part with Mr. Ornato and which Mr. Engel [a Secret Service agent] was present, where they detailed what happened in the limousine, ”Cheney said.
Cassidy Hutchinson, a former aide to Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, testified during the sixth hearing of the House Selection Committee on the January 6, June 28, 2022 uprising.
Brandon Bell / Getty Images
“Do you have any evidence other than Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony to corroborate what she said happened in that presidential caravan?” Karl asked Cheney.
“The committee has significant evidence on a whole range of issues, including the president’s intense anger,” Cheney responded.
“I think you will continue to see in the coming days and weeks additional details about the president’s activities and behavior that day,” Cheney added.
In a statement to ABC News, the Secret Service said officers were willing to give a sworn testimony to the panel. A source close to the Secret Service did not argue on ABC News that Trump was angry with the agents in the car, but said he did not get behind the wheel or throw himself at Robert Engel, the main agent of his detail.
Hutchinson also claimed that Trump knew his supporters were armed on Jan. 6 before a march on the Capitol.
Trump worked Tuesday to dismiss and downplay Hutchinson’s testimony, and posted on social media that “I almost don’t know who this person is … other than that I’ve heard very negative things about her (a total forgery and a ‘filtering’) “.
“It’s bad news!” added.
Speaking to Karl, Cheney said the House committee “will not stay to look at it [Hutchinson’s] be killed by anonymous sources and by men claiming executive privileges. And so we look forward to further testimony under oath on a number of issues. “
Criminal reference for manipulating witnesses?
Cheney said during last week’s hearing that some witnesses had told investigators that Trump’s aides tried to influence his testimony before the panel. Hutchinson was one of those who received messages about the former president’s protection, sources later told ABC News.
“Manipulating witnesses is a crime. Are you making a criminal reference to the DOJ about this?” Karl asked.
“We will make a decision as a committee on this,” Cheney replied.
“Do you have any doubts? [Trump] he broke the law and is he guilty of criminal violations? “Karl asked Cheney. (Trump insists he did nothing wrong.)” It’s a decision we’ll make together as a committee, “Cheney said of referring to any conduct. potential criminal in the Department of Justice.
“There is no doubt that he was involved in major crimes and misdemeanors. I think there is no doubt that it is the most serious betrayal of his oath of office to any president in the history of the nation. It is the most dangerous behavior of any president. of history. of the nation, “he said.
“Is it possible that there is a criminal referral?” Karl asked.
“Yes,” Cheney said, adding that the Justice Department “should not wait” for the panel to make a referral and that the committee could issue “more than one criminal referral.”
Deputy Liz Cheney, vice chair of the House Select Committee investigating the U.S. Capitol uprising on Jan. 6, gives her “Time to Choose” speech at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum on June 29. 2022, in Simi Valley, California.
Mark J. Terrill / AP, SHEET
Damaging Trump “is not the goal” of the hearings
Cheney has become perhaps the most vocal and most famous anti-Trump voice in his party, garnering praise from Democrats and taunts from many conservatives. Last year, he told ABC News that he would do “everything possible to make sure” Trump “never gets close to the oval office again.”
“Have these audiences brought you closer to that goal: to make him toxic and not a viable candidate?” Karl asked in the new interview.
“That’s not the goal of the hearings,” he said.
“It’s crucial that the country makes sure it never gets close to the oval office again,” Cheney continued.
“The goal of the hearings is to make sure the American people understand what happened; to help inform legislation, the legislative changes we should make,” he said. “I think it’s also the case that there’s not a single thing I’ve learned, since we’ve been involved in this research, that has made me less worried.”
“There’s no doubt: a man as dangerous as Donald Trump can never be closer to the oval office,” Cheney said.
With the primaries approaching, Cheney does not “intend to lose”
Cheney was one of 10 House Republicans who voted to oust Trump in 2021 to incite Capitol riots. Of that group, four are not running for re-election and South Carolina Rep. Tom Rice was defeated in his May primaries by a Trump-backed opponent.
Cheney will face Trump-backed candidate Harriet Hageman in early August. The former president won a higher proportion of votes in Wyoming in 2020 than in any other state.
“You said recently that the country is now in a battle: we have to win against the former president trying to undo our constitutional republic. What would that mean for this battle if you lose the Republican primaries in Wyoming?” Karl asked Cheney.
“Well, I have no intention of losing the Republican primaries in Wyoming,” Cheney said.
“How important is it for you to win, for this bigger battle?” Karl asked.
“I think it’s important, because I’ll be the best representative the people of Wyoming can have,” Cheney said.
“The most important thing is to protect Donald Trump’s nation. And I think that matters to us more as Americans than anything else, and that’s why my work on the committee is so important,” he said.
“It’s very important not only to brush up on this past and say,‘ Okay, well, this is in the past, ’but it also reports whether that kind of toxin from Trump’s belief that it can be put above the Constitution and to get above the law … – whether we beat it or not. And I think it’s very important that people know the truth. And that there are consequences, “Cheney said.
Cheney believes the GOP “cannot survive” a 2024 Trump candidacy
Cheney said the Republican Party “cannot survive” if the former president runs again in the White House and wins the Republican nomination for 2024.
“I don’t think he can be the party’s candidate. And I don’t think the party would survive,” Cheney said. “I believe in the party, and I believe in what the party can be and what the party can represent. And I’m not willing to give that up.”
“Those of us who believe in Republican principles and ideals have a responsibility to try to bring the party back to what it can be, to reject and reject so much toxin and vitriol,” he added.
“I think it’s also important to remember that millions of people, millions of Republicans have been betrayed by Donald Trump. And that’s a really painful thing for people to recognize and admit,” he said.
“But it’s absolutely like that and they’ve been betrayed by him, by the ‘big lie’ –in reference to Trump’s continued baseless claims about election fraud–” and by what he keeps doing and saying to destroy our country and break it. our party, and I think we have to reject that, ”Cheney said.
He said he has “not made any decision” about running for president in 2024.
“Obviously, I’m very focused on my re-election. I’m very focused on the Jan. 6 committee,” he said, and public hearings are expected to resume later this month. “I’m very focused on my obligations to do the job I have now. And I’ll make a decision around the 24th in the future.”
“But I think about it less in terms of deciding to run for office and more in terms of how American, and as someone who is in a position of public confidence now, how I make sure I’m doing it all. I can do the right thing, do what I know is …