When someone mentions Brian Cox, the first question invariably asked is: Which Brian Cox are you talking about? Do you mean the physicist Professor Brian Cox or the actor Brian Cox from Succession? So imagine how annoying it must be for Professor Brian and actor Brian Cox! Which got us thinking: What if we invited the two Brians to sit down together for a long chat, something they’d never done before?
Oldham-born particle physicist Professor Brian Edward Cox found fame presenting the wonders of the solar system and the forces of nature for the BBC. Earlier in the 1980s and early 90s he played keyboards for D:Ream, topping the UK charts with the future New Labor anthem Things Can Only Get Better in 1994. His new world tour, Horizons: In 21st Century Space Odyssey, return home. to a week-long residency at London’s Royal Opera House in August, then runs nationwide until October.
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Dundee-born actor Brian Denis Cox began working professionally in the 1960s, joining the National Theater in the 1970s and the Royal Shakespeare Company in the 1980s. His 50-year career in film, television and theater it has earned him Olivier, Bafta and Emmy nominations and awards. He appeared in The Bourne Identity and was the first actor to play Hannibal Lecter in the 1986 film Manhunter. He currently stars as media mogul Logan Roy in Succession, for which he won a Golden Globe for Best Actor in 2020 .
The two Brians caught up with Zoom for a wide-ranging chat about the universe, Succession, Shakespeare, and everything in between. Professor Brian and Actor Brian, to you…
Prof Brian Cox One of the topics of my live shows is the possibility that we may currently be the only intelligent civilization in the Milky Way. The challenge is the possibility that we destroy ourselves, through inaction or deliberate action, because we lack the wisdom to control our own power. And what a tragedy that would be, considering we might be the only island of meaning in an ocean of 400 billion suns.
Actor Brian Cox I think it’s incredibly doable. I was raised Catholic, but in recent years I’ve become quite an atheist. Religion is confusing because we don’t recognize who we are as humans. One of the reasons theater is so important to me is: why act? Acting is similar to religion, but religion is humanity. Religion is a dead end because it provides peace, but we are still in dangerous danger of destroying ourselves.
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Professor Brian Religion is clearly an attempt to explore, explain and understand our place in the universe. So you’re saying that acting is the same, but in a more detailed and truthful way?
Actor Brian I think so, Brian. Acting is truthful. Religion is understandable, but we look to God, Muhammad or the Pope, but we don’t look to ourselves. Shakespeare says it all: hold up the mirror to nature. He describes this very clearly in Hamlet’s advice to the players. This is why Shakespeare is such an extraordinary genius. Religion distracts us by saying: if we follow this path, we will achieve salvation. I think it’s a chocolate, frankly, and the older I get, the more chocolate I think it is.
Prof Brian It’s interesting what you say, Brian: the transfer of responsibility to an outside source. [American astronomer] Carl Sagan is one of my heroes. His 1994 book, Pale Blue Dot, reacts to the image of Earth taken from beyond Neptune as a single pixel. One line reads, “We must understand that no one is coming to save us from ourselves…”
Actor Brian I couldn’t agree with him more!
Prof Brian The word “meaning” does not sound like a scientific concept. But it is a property of the brain, of consciousness and of life.
Actor Brian It’s true.
Prof Brian And what if there is nowhere else in millions of light years for atoms to come together in these remarkable patterns that can think, feel and write like Shakespeare? The idea that meaning comes from us is very important, because it means we have to take responsibility.
Actor Brian Brian, couldn’t have said it better. Human experience is the most responsible thing you can recognize. And that’s why I act.
There’s a moment in Succession where Logan realizes it’s sunny, which I was incredibly moved by Brian Cox (Physicist)
Prof Brian You refer to Shakespeare as the great genius. What intrigues me is that there is an exploration of the playwright or the writer, but an additional exploration of the actor. Of all the characters you’ve played, which has been the best vehicle for exploring the depths of the human condition?
Actor Brian You have to embrace the notion of selfishness, because acting is a matter of confusion. I had a speech yesterday [filming season four of Succession] like Logan Roy, talking about human beings as economic units. I ask, “What is a person?” but distract yourself by asking, “Is the cheesecake good here?” The extraordinary thing about Logan, and why I don’t see him the way everyone else sees him, is that he’s a man on a journey to lose it, because he’s aligned himself with something that hasn’t given him satisfaction, which is that he cannot deal with his own children. The first question I asked was, “Does Logan Roy love his children?” I [creator] Jesse [Armstrong] he said, “Oh, yes, he loves them very much.” He constantly makes mistakes and becomes brutal. That’s why he’s such a fascinating character; he is so complex. I had another beautiful moment yesterday, I shouldn’t give it all away but I don’t care, where Logan realizes that he has no other companion and how alone he is, which I found incredibly moving. Again, this is part of the human condition; that feeling of loneliness. That’s why there’s a heroic element to Logan, because he’s in a deep struggle with himself. And as you said: the problem is that we are in a constant deep struggle with ourselves.
Prof Brian This complexity in human beings is that it is difficult for us to deal with both characters and problems that have multiple facets. If you look at quantum mechanics, the most esoteric part of all science, you are forced to think of electrons as particles. But they are also extended wavy things that fill the room. Of course, neither is it; it’s much more complicated. You need to keep these two ideas in mind, even if they seem mutually exclusive.
Cox in the box… actor Brian in Succession. Photograph: Macall Polay/AP
Actor Brian, I couldn’t agree more.
Prof Brian It’s like with Logan. It is very easy to say: it is bad.
Actor Brian The rule for the actor is: never judge your character because we don’t judge ourselves. We can be hard on ourselves, but we don’t say, “That’s a bad thing.” If you look at Iago, his reasons can be terribly wrong with terrible consequences, but he is locked in a destructive journey. Dramatic art delves into the complication and contradictions of human experience, because we live in such contradictory paradoxes.
Professor Brian I often advocate science education from the youngest possible age. Not because you need to know how many stars there are in a Milky Way, but because of the intellectual tools; nature is multifaceted and complex. Likewise, experiencing Shakespeare can be beautiful, so you’re making the same argument for a broad education.
Actor Brian Absolutely. Of course that’s why we have the same name, Brian! It is quite extraordinary and very harmonizing to talk to you in this way because you realize that regardless of our different pursuits, we are on a very similar journey.
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Professor Brian Science is necessary, but certainly not sufficient, for understanding our place in the universe. It is necessary, for example, to know that we are not at the center of the universe. If you go back to the ancient Greeks, they weren’t idiots, but they thought the Earth was at the center of the universe because what they observed was that everything falls toward the Earth.
Actor Brian And that’s the terrible thing about the ego. Ego makes you think you’re the center of the universe, and that’s the performer’s curse. We must be careful not to believe in our own mythology.
Prof Brian So what does it mean to live a finite and fragile life in an infinite and eternal universe? You will not find meaning through the eyepiece of the telescope. Music, literature, art, science are different facets of the same attempt to explore what it means to be human.
Actor Brian I think that’s the absolute key question, Brian. “Why are we?” is the question with which man has wrestled as long as we have been alive.
Professor Brian, I know you are very political because you often call me out on social media for something you said during question time.
Actor Brian Ha ha ha ha ha!
Prof Brian You have to understand this a lot, and I understand it to a certain extent, people say, “Stay in your lane. You’re a physicist. Talk to me about physics.” People say, “You’re an actor. I like you in Succession, but I don’t want to hear your political views.”
Star man… Professor Brian Cox takes his work to the SSE Arena, Wembley. Photograph: Nicky J Sims/Nicky Sims/Getty Images/McIntyre Ents
Actor Brian all the time. I’m not supposed to have political views, but I do, but that also has to do with my story. I’m filming a documentary right now [for Paramount+] in money, because money is the one thing no one ever likes to talk about. Like religion, money is the great unifier, but also the great divider. The rich are always on the defensive, but the poor are never defensive about their poverty. The wealth gap is such a painful experience, it’s heartbreaking.
Prof. Brian Do you want…