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Leigh Sales will leave at 7:30 p.m., the ABC’s star nightly program it has run for 12 years. During this time, he has graced prime ministers, world leaders, celebrities, actors, athletes, as well as a cross-sectional group of people from all walks of life. In turn, she has been given bouquets of flowers and bricks for her interviews, has been wild on social media for perceptions of prejudice and favoritism, and has exposed her personal life.
As she prepares for the 7:30 a.m. end of June 30, Sales asks questions of one of the toughest, hardest-working interviewers in the country: herself.
Thank you for joining us. How has a person without sports knowledge been able to survive more than a decade presenting a current Australian television program? If this is the type of interview you are planning …
Just answer the question. You learned a thing or two from the politicians I see. First of all, I have no knowledge …
Your executive producer once told you he had landed [Australian cricket coach] Justin Langer for an interview, but that would happen in 10 minutes and he asked if you were okay. You answered, “Yes, no problem,” and as you walked away, you searched Google, “Who’s Justin Langer?” Yes, but this is a useful lesson for future journalists: to become a fast-paced studio. In fact, I remember once my schoolmate Melissa Deacon was watching at 7.30am when I had an interview with Shane Warne and, knowing that I was almost out of sports, she texted me: “Literally, t I just heard on TV saying something like, “Warnie, we’re here at MCG and I can’t help but remember that time you took your 700th port? He said he was walking around his living room laughing hysterically and accused me of “perpetuating fraud on the Australian people”.
Have any of your school friends ever considered your performance? Yes, Scott Clydesdale, who passed 11th and 12th grade math, is always nervous on federal budget night. He’s constantly afraid of confusing billions with billions, and he knows I’m not good at calculating square feet, so I guess he’s worried about my infrastructure questions. This is because I once sent him a calculation of the amount of topsoil I needed for my backyard and asked him to review it. He sent me a text message: “Salesy, according to these numbers, yes, sure, go ahead if your goal is to bury your house and live underground.”
What about these answers, are you auditioning for a comedy concert as your next job? My real-life friends have commented that I’m a lot more fun than a 7.30pm viewer might expect.
What about the qualifier “real life” there? I don’t know why I said that, but I can see why you get so much abuse on Twitter, you’re very irritating.
What do your friends think of you as organizing a serious news program? My friend Grant McDonald says he likes it when I have fun because he thinks that’s when you see the real self. To be honest, my very old friends, from school and childhood, rarely mention it. It’s reassuring, in fact, it makes me feel like friends would have stayed with me no matter what I did in life, whether it was that or whether I was a hairdresser or a mechanic.
Leigh Sales: “I have a lot of respect for anyone who comes along [become prime minister]. ” Credit: Nic Walker
They would probably have preferred a hairdresser or a mechanic, much more useful. Tell me; My car broke down the other day and I called the only useful guy I know. Otherwise, my contact list is full of useless guys like writers, actors, and former prime ministers.
Do you get along well with the former prime ministers after those 7.30am interviews you put them through? Yes, and I hope everyone laughs at the previous joke. It’s hard to explain, but I have this weird fondness for all of them. There is something in everyone who has done this work that sticks in my heart. It’s such hard work. I don’t think people understand how hard it is if it’s not close. I have a lot of respect for anyone who comes close to doing so. The five prime ministers during my tenure at 7.30am (now six with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese) came regularly to interview and respect them for that.
Sales with former co-presenter Chris Uhlmann in 2011. Credit: Quentin Jones
So let’s see what you think of them all. And tell the truth. Kevin Rudd. He’s incredibly smart. Sometimes I call him in the background to ask him his ideas on foreign policy or political strategy and I always hang up the phone and say, “Wow, he connected those points brilliantly.” His latest book on China is exceptional.
Julia Gillard. She is a lovely and warm person. I think he has set the gold standard for a post-prime ministerial career. I’ve never seen him be more than professional and nice.
Tony Abbott. You can have a challenging and solid conversation with Tony and he argues well in his corner and never has thin skin. He always greeted and thanked the studio team – some of the guests didn’t even recognize them – and no matter how hard the interview was, he was calm when it was over. The world is full of boring people and he is not one of them.
Malcolm Turnbull. A great Australian story. I think of him as a bigger figure than life, just because he has led such an extraordinary life, from the Spycatcher trial to the beginning, to becoming prime minister. His analysis on any subject is astute and attractive. He is a hilarious narrator, between his voice and his way of using language, he may have tears rolling down your face.
Former Prime Minister Scott Morrison at 7.30am with Sales in May 2019. Credit: ABC
Scott Morrison. Contrary to the myth that was never presented in the interviews, Scott has been interviewed by me more than any politician in the federal parliament: between Lateline and 7.30, easily more than 50 times. He never avoided a difficult interview and was never anything more than professional and courteous. I wish him the best in the next stage of his life and look forward to talking to him when the dust settles.
How about before anchoring at 7.30am: Bob Hawke, Paul Keating and John Howard? You interviewed them all. I last saw Mr. Hawke just a few months before he died. We sat on her back terrace, chatting and looking at the forest at the back of the house while she waited for an interview with Blanche. I was excited, in fact. I had this feeling of going back to my childhood and watching it on TV when Australia won the America’s Cup. I said, “Wow, how is this kid sitting today and having a cup of tea with Bob Hawke?” He was just a legend.
Mr Keating: One of the most amazing, brilliant and original people I have ever met. When Gough Whitlam died, he entered the studio to do an interview to pay tribute. The next day he called me and I said, “I couldn’t help but think last night …” and I paused because I didn’t know how to say it. And he said, “One day you were thinking, someone will be sitting there and you will ask them about me.” I felt my throat a little tense and I said, “Who do you want to invite?” But I wouldn’t say that. It has been one of the great privileges of my life to be able to talk to him from time to time. There will only be one PJK.
Sales interviews former Prime Minister Paul Keating at a conference in February 2021.
Ah-ha! A bit of ABC left prejudice that appears there. We’re not up to John Howard yet! He has always been very kind to me, he always helps me. I try to get organized, once a year, to have a cup of tea with him because listening to his perspective on politics and foreign affairs helps me understand where the Liberals are coming from, how to call Kevin helps me to understand the Labor side. Mr. Howard’s radar is as sharp as ever.
My father was in the military and met John Howard very briefly once in East Timor in 1999 and said, “My daughter is an ABC journalist, Leigh Sales.” I was absolutely nobody, but Mr. Howard remembered it years later and always wondered how my father was doing. When my father died, Mr. Howard called me personally to offer his condolences. So did Malcolm, who was actually prime minister at the time. It was my turn for both of them to take the time to do it.
Why do you call John Howard “Mr Howard” and Malcolm Turnbull “Malcolm”? I don’t know, maybe it’s a matter of age. Hawke, Keating and Howard feel like my grandparents. Mr. Keating has told me several times to call him Paul and I can’t.
Don’t you find it strange that you like both John Howard and Paul Keating? Most people love one and hate the other. Absolutely not. It’s one of my favorite things about being a journalist. If you listen to what people say and try to process it with an open mind, you can talk to anyone. People can hear if you are really trying to understand them and this helps them to trust you. It is not your job as a journalist to agree or disagree with them. This is for the public. Your job is to report people’s positions fairly and accurately. You can’t do this if you don’t interact with them or if you talk to them with a critical mindset.
Aside from sports, it clarifies other topics that you have no idea about. Well, I remember I once had to interview Salman Rushdie. He had found literally all of his books impenetrable. When I admit it, people always say, “Oh, you should read Midnight’s Children.” I have tried. Impenetrable. He was very anxious for us not to have a connection because he is much more intellectual than I am. But she was one of the most charming, witty, and charming people I have ever met. Then I thought to myself, “Oh, that’s why Salman Rushdie always has a beautiful woman on his arm, he’s completely bright and intoxicating.”
Rooms interview Salman Rushie at 7:30 a.m. 2017.
Who else has been remarkably charming? Shane Warne. I couldn’t have liked it more, it was so …